A quite interesting take on the whole story:

(Starting from 14:22)

I mean, I said it before and will gladly say it again, my take on the whole thing is: Take the opportunity and modernise your project's communication infrastructure. Given the shape of IRC in 2021, it's very likely that IRC is no longer the way to go.

With most projects we made very good experiences with hosting them on the matrix network. However, it might not fit for your community.

@sheogorath to move on. That isn’t a bad thing.

I for one love Matrix as a protocol and I intend on hosting my chat services there either myself or in a room for the foreseeable future.

@wholesomedonut I run all my communities from a small, own homeserver that I host only for myself. It's great since everyone who wants to join can organise their account and join and I don't need to manage account abuse, while hosting some nice communities.

@sheogorath I might make a summer home there per se. if you’d have me.

You inspired me to look at some other Elder Scrolls themed domains too. 😂

@sheogorath @wholesomedonut

I mostly agree. Matrix is very good, but it lacks one essential feature: probably removal of messages when user deletes them. This is briefly explained in

That’s why I think there is a need that to high extent IRC fulfills.

@Mehrad @wholesomedonut not really. While technically it's correct that an IRCd won't store your message in the long term, as soon as it's a public room, it's likely to contain at least one client that logs all messages, as many bouncers do.

The problem is, you can't even send these bouncers or clients a deletion request.

In both cases you rely on third-parties to comply with your deletion request. In Matrix it's at least automated.

@sheogorath One of the major benefits of IRC though is the removal of friction. I can host a simple IRC webclient or link to an existing one and people can join my channel, ask questions and generally participate in my project. All without creating an account. Unlike Matrix (which i really like, btw) an account is entirely optional.

@mzumquadrat I agree, but nowadays I don't consider the creation of an account that much of a hassle. And it's a problem that solves itself over time, since you only need one account for the entire matrix ecosystem. So the more projects use Matrix, the less people feel the friction, since they are already there.

@mzumquadrat Oh and for what I noticed, IRC easily creates friction by the requirement of monitoring channels.

If I have to join an "exotic" IRC network, write my question in a room of 10 users and wait 6 hours for an answer, it's very unlikely that I ever get that answer. Because I open that webclient enter the room, write my question, then might want to switch somewhere else, so I close the lid of my machine or it goes into sleep mode, … 9/10 I never get that answer.

> but nowadays I don't consider the creation of an account that much of a hassle.

I disagree! There is no use in creating a account, just to ask some questions one-time. Requiring an account if no e.g. email notifications are wanted, is violating the principle if data minimisation and thus GDPR art. 5 lit. 1(c)

@kirschwipfel @mzumquadrat By no means. The requirement for an account to ask a question can be justified by Article 6 lit. f as part of protection against spam.

No one said that the account has to have an email address attached.

But all that aside, matrix doesn't have a technical requirement for accounts as the guest account feature exist, it's just that all clients currently expect an account, if I recall correct.

@kirschwipfel @mzumquadrat Alternatively one could argue that according to Article 6 lit. a, a matrix account, where you are free to choose your provider to get one, is required to get the support service offered.

Either way, by no means the GDPR is so one dimensional that one can take it and hit down whatever one doesn't like. There is a reason why currently many questionable business practices are fought out in courts.

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